Shakti Sundari...seriously! Dating in my twenties was also so much easier. Several years ago I dated a gorgeous man..we had so much in common! He introduced me to his grown up Children who we were supposed to spend Christmas. A week before Christmas he began ghosting me. I didn't know there was such a thing. Certainly left me completely bewildered and uncertain of myself..this ghosting seems to be a "thing " of our time. It's an appalling way to treat another human being!
My last relationship was like that...kind attentive caring (when others around) stonewalling for days he would pick a quabble then sod off and leave me with that heavy feeling. Then out of the blue "How's my baby?" He soon found out how his "baby" felt when I gave him both barrels and eventually packed his bags.
Has it become complicated or is that we now have conscious awareness of the BS, stonewalling, ghosting, bread crumbling?
Filled to overflowing with self worth that we now oooze we are awake to it...doesn't stop that pang of pain though does it?
But we navigate it better and come back to our equilibrium...like you say more peace, joy and juiciness ❤❤❤
Sorry you had this experience and thanks for sharing. I think we’ve all had our fair share of unhealthy relationships - I certainly have, but I don’t recall dealing with ghosting, bread-crumbing or stonewalling in my 20s, 30s or 40s AT ALL. Especially in my 20s and 30s - it was so easy. Mutual attraction, mutual time spent together, mutual intimacy, relationship and steadiness. That was my experience at least. Things only started changing for me post-divorce and awakening if I’m honest. And I really can’t identify if the change in men’s behaviour is down to the new circles I moved in - “conscious” & “tantric” or if that’s when people in general started to get more flakey & dishonourable. I suspect dating apps and virtual culture more broadly have something to do with it, encouraging people to regard one another as disposable objects.I’ve never experienced such poor behaviour from men as I have in the last 10 years and that’s when I’ve been at my most awake, wise and aware. Go figure.
We’re now living in an almost purely digital age. It’s not just the apps. We also communicate digitally in large part now. Think about how often you actually call someone as opposed to texting them? It’s a lot easier to breadcrumb and stonewall and ghost someone when you’re hiding behind your phone.
Curious if you are speaking from your own experiences of this? I’m sorry if so.
I will be the standard bearer for the fact that all humans deserve our respect and care, even if we don’t see a future with them.
A short message costs nothing, but leaves a trail of kindness in its wake, rather than fostering mistrust and anxiety.
Of course there are exceptions and even in this I’ve had to learn, since I’m so wired to understand others and offer compassion.
Bur disrespect, crudeness or any form of control, aggression or abuse are immediate blocks in my world these days. I feel sad that each of these seems pretty common.
Don’t give Mr Silent Treatment even a second more thought. He doesn’t deserve it. Even if your date wasn’t a good one and you didn’t align in the way that you feel that you did it is bad manners to not check how your female (or male but especially female) partner is and make sure that they got home okay. Oh and to thank them for a good evening. I’m almost in my mid 50s and I am sick to the teeth of the apps but unfortunately that’s the way people seem to meet these days. I keep saying, bring back the dinner parties! I too have become all too familiar with the triumvirate of ghosting, bread-crumbing, situationships or the silent treatment. Sorry that’s four things. I just don’t put up with nonsense anymore. I’ve met so many flakey men and after a long relationship with the father of my children I wasn’t prepared for this fresh hell that is online dating. I’ve never done it before and the thought of doing it too much longer makes me want to get myself to a nunnery, or maybe just a padded cell would do. The really interesting thing is that I have found some of the older men to be even more cagey and bad-mannered than the younger men. Very skittish. A lot of the older guys also are very jaded and bitter, not all. Some of the younger men put some of the older guys to shame: more attentive, better manners, better lovers and far more forthcoming. And in my experience most men will say or do anything to get you into bed. I don’t know what the answer is. I would just rather be on my own than put up with this nonsense. I hope that somebody strays into your life (and mine) sometime soon that is worthy of you. 🙏🏼
Thanks for sharing and I totally agree re the younger men - most of my lovers have been younger for all of those reasons: they’re better lovers, better communicators, less cynical and patriarchal and way more energetic and fun. I believe that there are a lot of dinosaurs in the 50+ age range of men, who just haven’t had to do any inner work and now find themselves totally out of touch with modern relating and women’s needs. I’m sorry you’ve had all those unpleasant experiences and for what it’s worth, there IS a trend away from apps, because you’re not alone in that. I worry for the health of human relating. Apps and technology, plus the speed of life these days is training people to be worse at actual connection and intimacy.
It’s interesting that you say that. I cop a bit of flack from my friends about it but I don’t feel the need to explain myself anymore and there is no shortage of younger men to find older women attractive. I figure that while they find me attractive now I may as well enjoy myself. A lot of older men also don’t take care of themselves. It’s a no-brainer.
Great writing as usual. Piercing, raw honesty which is what I get with you. So easy to read. To be honest Im a little worried for the gûys well being. Has he been involved in an accident?
Thanks Simon. Well, that was one of my concerns too, as his behaviour seemed so out of character. But no. I found out through our mutual friend that he’s alive and well and his phone is fully functioning. I was not amused.
I’m in your age group but married. To be honest and only hearing your side, you seem to have a lot of expectations. He needs to plan. He needs to pay. He needs to send a ‘hope you get home ok’ text. He this and he that. Maybe he had some expectations that you didn’t meet and rather than get into a long back and forth he decided it was safer to move on rather than hurt your feelings.
Women say they just want honest communication. But how many women communicate honestly?
Hey Lefty, I don't want to turn this into a man versus woman thing, b/cos I don't think that's helpful.
I can only speak for myself. I've studied and taught authentic relating and conscious communication for many years, so it's really important to me and I strive to walk my talk. I'd say I'm more honest and self-aware than most people.
As for your sense of expectations being at play here, I didn't have those expectations - that's your projection. HE offered to pay, plan etc. That was how he showed up and, honestly, it's not what I'm used to and I was incredibly grateful and appreciative. It felt so lovely to be taken care of like that.
I *did* expect a follow-up message. If you've spent 5 hours on a beautiful deep date with a woman you seem very invested in, ask when you can see her again, tell her what an impression she's made on you and express your desire for a relationship rather than a casual sex situation and then say goodbye to her at midnight in the centre of a big city, so she has to catch the last tube (underground train) home alone, for me a short message a) to thank her and b) to make sure she got home safely is basic decency.
So in that regard he didn't meet that specific expectation, but otherwise not at all. Like I say in the blog, I felt happy, touched and grateful by the energy and attention he invested in me.
As for not expressing his truth out of fear, that's emotionally immature, especially for a 58 year-old man !! I have open and honest communication with all my friends and family. It's my norm. I guess in acting this way, he has revealed he is not right for me, so it's a blessing in disguise. I'm a grown, deep, smart and sensitive woman looking for a life-partner. I'm not gonna waste my time playing games with boy-men who aren't clear in their intentions and communication.
Nice article. Thanks for sharing. Looks like you did not impress him as much as he impressed you. And you overlooked an important issue. Men over 60 usually experience some anxiety over their ability to achieve and maintain erections. Many think that's all there is to sex. He was probably afraid to talke the relationship to that level. It's good for older people to be candid about their expectations up front.
I appreciate your comment and perceive some assumptions and projections in it too. My date was 58 and, by my assessment, sexually at ease and confident. That is important to me, as I'm a sensual woman for whom a great sex life is very important.
Secondly, my assessment is that, if anything, he was more into me. His words and actions certainly indicated a high level of interest, care and desire.
However, this was our first date, so the thought of "progressing to sex" wasn't really on the table. At this juncture we were just getting to know one another. Sex, for me, comes later - once I know and trust someone and have determined if we are both wishing to be exclusive and see a relational future together.
I've been a student and teacher of conscious relating for many years, so if a man is not capable of articulating his truth to me, I would not be interested.
I hesitate to mention this, and you are the expert, but as I was reading your post, I experienced some red flags, and so I wonder if he may have, too. I'm not justifying his ghosting and other immaturities.
But if I didn't know you were 60, I'd have mistaken you for a much younger and less wise and experienced woman in this post. It read like something out of a romance novel -- your description of him and the date. I wonder if he sensed that but lacked the capacity to discuss his concerns with you in a way that would be appropriate for a man of his age.
Well, it’s a piece that condenses weeks of interaction and hours of connection on a date and for sure I’ve framed it as a story that speaks to my experience.
I am a romantic and I don’t think that’s incompatible with my age or wisdom. And as far as this date goes, I feel I walked into it with both feet on the ground, rather than giddy and projecting. If anything I felt like I was the one staying rooted while he was very open about how smitten he was. Which is why his subsequent behaviour was so disorientating.
I’m a skilled reader of body language, deeply intuitive and educated in human psychology. I didn’t see anything to indicate he was anything but honest, caring, respectful and very interested in me with a view to getting to know me better and spending more time together with the possibility of relationship. He’s also a very close friend of one of my closest friends, so I know him to be a man of good character in that regard and we’ve known of one another for years.
Finally, I would say that whilst I am deep, wise and intelligent, I am not a typical 60 year-old (if there is such a thing) and do have a very young, vivacious spirit and a quality of innocence that life’s twists and turns simply can’t knock out of me.
It’s been almost a decade since I’ve met a man where there was such a high degree of alignment - interests, life-stage, life-vision, relationship desire, fitness, intelligence - AND mutual attraction, that I was excited. I’m sure I will always feel excitement and passion around love and intimacy, whether I’m 60 or 90 and I’m aware that’s probably not the norm, but that’ how I roll.
I think that’s making excuses for the man. Bear in mind his age also. It wouldn’t take much just to send a text thanking her for the date and making sure that she got home. And if he didn’t want to see her again a second text saying, I had a really good time but I just don’t think this is going to work for me. How hard is that?
I guess we all have different standards and expectations. I’ve been immersed in studying and teaching conscious relating and communication for many years and am surrounded by people who live and relate this way. It would be unthinkable for someone in my circle to ghost another person. Instead, if something had changed for them they would communicate it with clarity and care. Beyond my world, though, I would certainly expect a 58 year-old man who presented as honest, loyal, respectful and caring to send a follow up text to say thank you and a note of polite withdrawal if he realised after the date that he didn’t want to pursue the connection after all. Frankly, though, if someone can be that incongruous in behaviour, that’s a massive red flag in itself. I still can’t quite believe he could be so different to how I experienced him and since I don’t know the truth don't like to speculate, but if he is, then life is just redirecting me away from something unhealthy.
I could not agree more. It doesn’t matter what age they are though, they can still communicate. They still have use of their texting thumbs if they wish to use them. It’s just easier to ignore rather than actually have to do something. It’s a really sad state of affairs. There are basic standards of decency.
Agreed. This is not only a very reasonable expectation but it’s also a very generous one. On the positive side, maybe he drown on the way home, his body hasn’t been recovered, and he never got the texts or chance to reply. For his sake, would be better to be dead than such a jackass with no integrity to not reply and be so deceitful. I’m surprised your mutual friends didn’t know him well enough or steer you away in the first place.
I wouldn’t wish harm on anyone and honestly the only plausible reasons of this behaviour that made sense in light of the level of interest, care and respect he demonstrated prior to and on our date is a) a massive personal crisis or b) he’d lost his phone. The 3rd alternative - emotional immaturity/incongruence - seemed so far from how I perceived him that I found it very hard to believe. But I guess I tend to see the best in people and, based on the fact that we have very close friends in common, did grant him more trust than I would a stranger. The fact is, I still don’t know the truth, and until I do I refuse to condemn him. But if it is a case of scenario 3, then clearly I dodged a bullet.
Turns out it wasn't a) or b). He is fine and his phone is fine. Sadly, for whatever reason, he chose to ignore my messages and stop communicating with me. I'd love to know why, but guess it may remain a mystery.
I acknowledged in my comment that he handled it poorly. But im 70. Also young in spirit and comparatively romantic. And I've learned that men in their 40s and 50s crave excitement. But by their 60s, they tend to seek peace and a more quiet sense of connection. I wrote my comment because I saw something in her post that I've had men in their 60s express concern about with some of their dates.
Since I've been dismissed by you as someone who is merely making excuses for the man and has nothing to offer based on my experience, I'll bow out of this discussion.
Oh no no I wasn’t being dismissive of you or your comment, I think you’ve taken it the wrong way and I apologise if it came off that way. I was simply trying to make a point about the man. It’s just robust discussion. Have a good day friend.
I must admit to sometimes ghosting men myself. Usually it’s because I sense they want more than I’m unable to give. And I’m not invested enough in the relationship to want to have a conversation. I recognise it’s not adult behaviour but I’ve had it happen to me so often I take it as a normal aspect of modern dating. I’m also used to people disappearing for weeks or months and then reappearing. I find having several FWBs much easier and less stressful than searching for ‘the one’.
Hey Suzanne, thanks for adding your voice and sharing honestly.
The thing that stands out to me from your share is “I’ve had it happen to me so often I take it as a normal aspect of modern dating.” Along with the next sentence on people disappearing and reappearing.
I’m curious about why it’s become normalised and personally see this as a negative trend with ramifications far beyond dating, as how people date is how people relate. I guess it goes against my personal dedication to love, intimacy and awareness, to witness what looks to me like a progression towards depersonalisation of others who do not serve your purpose.
It also somehow feels like a resigned acceptance of something for many - not saying that’s the case for you - rather than standing for what you truly desire or feel aligned with.
I actually envy you and those like you at times for the freedom you appear to enjoy in having multiple lovers, but as you know, I’m just not wired that way. I’m incapable of loving or making love with more than one person at a time. It’s deep and devotional for me or nothing.
It’s interesting to hear your reason for sometimes ghosting. For me the only time I don’t respond to someone is if they are crude or offensive. Otherwise I always let a man know I’ve decided not to continue the connection. It just feels right to honour them in that way and not just abruptly drop out.
In this particular case, the guy presented as smitten and invested in me - somewhat more than I in him - or at least I felt like I was wanting to stay grounded and explore this apparent great alignment over time, rather than leap to sexual intimacy. He was speaking of wanting to see me again and making great effort to do so, sharing very openly about his life, agreeing that he also wanted a relationship rather than FWB situation and acting interested and attentive throughout the date. He is also a very close friend of a very close friend and we even spoke about how that acted as a kind of character reference. So, for me, his drop off into not only total silence but ignoring my messages was a significant shock and very discombobulating in its incongruence. I was genuinely worried something might have happened to him on the way home that night, because I couldn't explain his behaviour in any other way (that, or he’d lost his phone). I’ve since found out he’s fine and so is his phone, so the only conclusion I can now meaningfully come to is emotional immaturity, cowardice and a lack of capacity for authentic relating, even though he also spoke of being a fan of Esther Perel, whose conference I recently attended.
For me it was hugely disappointing because it did seem that I’d met someone with the potential for a meaningful relationship and I very very rarely meet men where there I mutual interest, alignment and attraction.
But more than that the lack of moral integrity and care hurt my heart.
Fifty-eight-year-old men do not date similarly aged or older women. He probably found you engaging and attractive and was being polite on the date. It’s not that complicated.
Are you passing off your own preferences as truth here? That may be the case for a certain category or men, but certainly not all men and definitely not the kind of men I would be interested in myself. Most of my partners and lovers have been younger than me. And I know plenty of relationships where the women are older. No big deal.
For me, attraction isn’t about someone’s age, but their energy, mind, values, character and physique. And relational compatibility comes down to sharing similar life-goals and relating styles.
As for your assumption about my date’s behaviour, he definitely wasn’t just being polite.He pursued me and displayed a high level of interest, care and desire.
He’s also the oldest man I’ve been on a date with in a decade.
Hi, I guess you’re saying men get ghosted after dates regularly and you imagine women don’t? From what I can tell both men and women are getting ghosted these days and it’s a horrible experience for both. I’m concerned with the underlying reasons why this behaviour has become so common and hope that in some small way my writing and teaching counteracts a negative trend in human relating. Not all men/women do it. There are many good men/women out there. I believe if we want to change things, we have to keep showing up in integrity, as well as keep on mastering our mindset and refining our selection criteria.
Shakti Sundari...seriously! Dating in my twenties was also so much easier. Several years ago I dated a gorgeous man..we had so much in common! He introduced me to his grown up Children who we were supposed to spend Christmas. A week before Christmas he began ghosting me. I didn't know there was such a thing. Certainly left me completely bewildered and uncertain of myself..this ghosting seems to be a "thing " of our time. It's an appalling way to treat another human being!
Love this and resonates with me so so much...
My last relationship was like that...kind attentive caring (when others around) stonewalling for days he would pick a quabble then sod off and leave me with that heavy feeling. Then out of the blue "How's my baby?" He soon found out how his "baby" felt when I gave him both barrels and eventually packed his bags.
Has it become complicated or is that we now have conscious awareness of the BS, stonewalling, ghosting, bread crumbling?
Filled to overflowing with self worth that we now oooze we are awake to it...doesn't stop that pang of pain though does it?
But we navigate it better and come back to our equilibrium...like you say more peace, joy and juiciness ❤❤❤
Sorry you had this experience and thanks for sharing. I think we’ve all had our fair share of unhealthy relationships - I certainly have, but I don’t recall dealing with ghosting, bread-crumbing or stonewalling in my 20s, 30s or 40s AT ALL. Especially in my 20s and 30s - it was so easy. Mutual attraction, mutual time spent together, mutual intimacy, relationship and steadiness. That was my experience at least. Things only started changing for me post-divorce and awakening if I’m honest. And I really can’t identify if the change in men’s behaviour is down to the new circles I moved in - “conscious” & “tantric” or if that’s when people in general started to get more flakey & dishonourable. I suspect dating apps and virtual culture more broadly have something to do with it, encouraging people to regard one another as disposable objects.I’ve never experienced such poor behaviour from men as I have in the last 10 years and that’s when I’ve been at my most awake, wise and aware. Go figure.
We’re now living in an almost purely digital age. It’s not just the apps. We also communicate digitally in large part now. Think about how often you actually call someone as opposed to texting them? It’s a lot easier to breadcrumb and stonewall and ghost someone when you’re hiding behind your phone.
for sure these behaviours have become more common and almost accepted as “normal”, when to my mind, they’re nothing of the sort.
Peace is definitely the standard.
Curious if you are speaking from your own experiences of this? I’m sorry if so.
I will be the standard bearer for the fact that all humans deserve our respect and care, even if we don’t see a future with them.
A short message costs nothing, but leaves a trail of kindness in its wake, rather than fostering mistrust and anxiety.
Of course there are exceptions and even in this I’ve had to learn, since I’m so wired to understand others and offer compassion.
Bur disrespect, crudeness or any form of control, aggression or abuse are immediate blocks in my world these days. I feel sad that each of these seems pretty common.
Don’t give Mr Silent Treatment even a second more thought. He doesn’t deserve it. Even if your date wasn’t a good one and you didn’t align in the way that you feel that you did it is bad manners to not check how your female (or male but especially female) partner is and make sure that they got home okay. Oh and to thank them for a good evening. I’m almost in my mid 50s and I am sick to the teeth of the apps but unfortunately that’s the way people seem to meet these days. I keep saying, bring back the dinner parties! I too have become all too familiar with the triumvirate of ghosting, bread-crumbing, situationships or the silent treatment. Sorry that’s four things. I just don’t put up with nonsense anymore. I’ve met so many flakey men and after a long relationship with the father of my children I wasn’t prepared for this fresh hell that is online dating. I’ve never done it before and the thought of doing it too much longer makes me want to get myself to a nunnery, or maybe just a padded cell would do. The really interesting thing is that I have found some of the older men to be even more cagey and bad-mannered than the younger men. Very skittish. A lot of the older guys also are very jaded and bitter, not all. Some of the younger men put some of the older guys to shame: more attentive, better manners, better lovers and far more forthcoming. And in my experience most men will say or do anything to get you into bed. I don’t know what the answer is. I would just rather be on my own than put up with this nonsense. I hope that somebody strays into your life (and mine) sometime soon that is worthy of you. 🙏🏼
Thanks for sharing and I totally agree re the younger men - most of my lovers have been younger for all of those reasons: they’re better lovers, better communicators, less cynical and patriarchal and way more energetic and fun. I believe that there are a lot of dinosaurs in the 50+ age range of men, who just haven’t had to do any inner work and now find themselves totally out of touch with modern relating and women’s needs. I’m sorry you’ve had all those unpleasant experiences and for what it’s worth, there IS a trend away from apps, because you’re not alone in that. I worry for the health of human relating. Apps and technology, plus the speed of life these days is training people to be worse at actual connection and intimacy.
It’s interesting that you say that. I cop a bit of flack from my friends about it but I don’t feel the need to explain myself anymore and there is no shortage of younger men to find older women attractive. I figure that while they find me attractive now I may as well enjoy myself. A lot of older men also don’t take care of themselves. It’s a no-brainer.
Great writing as usual. Piercing, raw honesty which is what I get with you. So easy to read. To be honest Im a little worried for the gûys well being. Has he been involved in an accident?
Thanks Simon. Well, that was one of my concerns too, as his behaviour seemed so out of character. But no. I found out through our mutual friend that he’s alive and well and his phone is fully functioning. I was not amused.
I’m in your age group but married. To be honest and only hearing your side, you seem to have a lot of expectations. He needs to plan. He needs to pay. He needs to send a ‘hope you get home ok’ text. He this and he that. Maybe he had some expectations that you didn’t meet and rather than get into a long back and forth he decided it was safer to move on rather than hurt your feelings.
Women say they just want honest communication. But how many women communicate honestly?
Hey Lefty, I don't want to turn this into a man versus woman thing, b/cos I don't think that's helpful.
I can only speak for myself. I've studied and taught authentic relating and conscious communication for many years, so it's really important to me and I strive to walk my talk. I'd say I'm more honest and self-aware than most people.
As for your sense of expectations being at play here, I didn't have those expectations - that's your projection. HE offered to pay, plan etc. That was how he showed up and, honestly, it's not what I'm used to and I was incredibly grateful and appreciative. It felt so lovely to be taken care of like that.
I *did* expect a follow-up message. If you've spent 5 hours on a beautiful deep date with a woman you seem very invested in, ask when you can see her again, tell her what an impression she's made on you and express your desire for a relationship rather than a casual sex situation and then say goodbye to her at midnight in the centre of a big city, so she has to catch the last tube (underground train) home alone, for me a short message a) to thank her and b) to make sure she got home safely is basic decency.
So in that regard he didn't meet that specific expectation, but otherwise not at all. Like I say in the blog, I felt happy, touched and grateful by the energy and attention he invested in me.
As for not expressing his truth out of fear, that's emotionally immature, especially for a 58 year-old man !! I have open and honest communication with all my friends and family. It's my norm. I guess in acting this way, he has revealed he is not right for me, so it's a blessing in disguise. I'm a grown, deep, smart and sensitive woman looking for a life-partner. I'm not gonna waste my time playing games with boy-men who aren't clear in their intentions and communication.
Nice article. Thanks for sharing. Looks like you did not impress him as much as he impressed you. And you overlooked an important issue. Men over 60 usually experience some anxiety over their ability to achieve and maintain erections. Many think that's all there is to sex. He was probably afraid to talke the relationship to that level. It's good for older people to be candid about their expectations up front.
I appreciate your comment and perceive some assumptions and projections in it too. My date was 58 and, by my assessment, sexually at ease and confident. That is important to me, as I'm a sensual woman for whom a great sex life is very important.
Secondly, my assessment is that, if anything, he was more into me. His words and actions certainly indicated a high level of interest, care and desire.
However, this was our first date, so the thought of "progressing to sex" wasn't really on the table. At this juncture we were just getting to know one another. Sex, for me, comes later - once I know and trust someone and have determined if we are both wishing to be exclusive and see a relational future together.
I've been a student and teacher of conscious relating for many years, so if a man is not capable of articulating his truth to me, I would not be interested.
Everybody has her or his take on this. https://zoneofsulphur.substack.com/p/time-makes-monsters-of-us-all
I hesitate to mention this, and you are the expert, but as I was reading your post, I experienced some red flags, and so I wonder if he may have, too. I'm not justifying his ghosting and other immaturities.
But if I didn't know you were 60, I'd have mistaken you for a much younger and less wise and experienced woman in this post. It read like something out of a romance novel -- your description of him and the date. I wonder if he sensed that but lacked the capacity to discuss his concerns with you in a way that would be appropriate for a man of his age.
Hey Elizabeth, that’s interesting.
Well, it’s a piece that condenses weeks of interaction and hours of connection on a date and for sure I’ve framed it as a story that speaks to my experience.
I am a romantic and I don’t think that’s incompatible with my age or wisdom. And as far as this date goes, I feel I walked into it with both feet on the ground, rather than giddy and projecting. If anything I felt like I was the one staying rooted while he was very open about how smitten he was. Which is why his subsequent behaviour was so disorientating.
I’m a skilled reader of body language, deeply intuitive and educated in human psychology. I didn’t see anything to indicate he was anything but honest, caring, respectful and very interested in me with a view to getting to know me better and spending more time together with the possibility of relationship. He’s also a very close friend of one of my closest friends, so I know him to be a man of good character in that regard and we’ve known of one another for years.
Finally, I would say that whilst I am deep, wise and intelligent, I am not a typical 60 year-old (if there is such a thing) and do have a very young, vivacious spirit and a quality of innocence that life’s twists and turns simply can’t knock out of me.
It’s been almost a decade since I’ve met a man where there was such a high degree of alignment - interests, life-stage, life-vision, relationship desire, fitness, intelligence - AND mutual attraction, that I was excited. I’m sure I will always feel excitement and passion around love and intimacy, whether I’m 60 or 90 and I’m aware that’s probably not the norm, but that’ how I roll.
I think that’s making excuses for the man. Bear in mind his age also. It wouldn’t take much just to send a text thanking her for the date and making sure that she got home. And if he didn’t want to see her again a second text saying, I had a really good time but I just don’t think this is going to work for me. How hard is that?
I guess we all have different standards and expectations. I’ve been immersed in studying and teaching conscious relating and communication for many years and am surrounded by people who live and relate this way. It would be unthinkable for someone in my circle to ghost another person. Instead, if something had changed for them they would communicate it with clarity and care. Beyond my world, though, I would certainly expect a 58 year-old man who presented as honest, loyal, respectful and caring to send a follow up text to say thank you and a note of polite withdrawal if he realised after the date that he didn’t want to pursue the connection after all. Frankly, though, if someone can be that incongruous in behaviour, that’s a massive red flag in itself. I still can’t quite believe he could be so different to how I experienced him and since I don’t know the truth don't like to speculate, but if he is, then life is just redirecting me away from something unhealthy.
I could not agree more. It doesn’t matter what age they are though, they can still communicate. They still have use of their texting thumbs if they wish to use them. It’s just easier to ignore rather than actually have to do something. It’s a really sad state of affairs. There are basic standards of decency.
Agreed. This is not only a very reasonable expectation but it’s also a very generous one. On the positive side, maybe he drown on the way home, his body hasn’t been recovered, and he never got the texts or chance to reply. For his sake, would be better to be dead than such a jackass with no integrity to not reply and be so deceitful. I’m surprised your mutual friends didn’t know him well enough or steer you away in the first place.
I wouldn’t wish harm on anyone and honestly the only plausible reasons of this behaviour that made sense in light of the level of interest, care and respect he demonstrated prior to and on our date is a) a massive personal crisis or b) he’d lost his phone. The 3rd alternative - emotional immaturity/incongruence - seemed so far from how I perceived him that I found it very hard to believe. But I guess I tend to see the best in people and, based on the fact that we have very close friends in common, did grant him more trust than I would a stranger. The fact is, I still don’t know the truth, and until I do I refuse to condemn him. But if it is a case of scenario 3, then clearly I dodged a bullet.
Turns out it wasn't a) or b). He is fine and his phone is fine. Sadly, for whatever reason, he chose to ignore my messages and stop communicating with me. I'd love to know why, but guess it may remain a mystery.
I'm disappointed by his basic lack of decency, manners and respect .
I acknowledged in my comment that he handled it poorly. But im 70. Also young in spirit and comparatively romantic. And I've learned that men in their 40s and 50s crave excitement. But by their 60s, they tend to seek peace and a more quiet sense of connection. I wrote my comment because I saw something in her post that I've had men in their 60s express concern about with some of their dates.
Since I've been dismissed by you as someone who is merely making excuses for the man and has nothing to offer based on my experience, I'll bow out of this discussion.
Oh no no I wasn’t being dismissive of you or your comment, I think you’ve taken it the wrong way and I apologise if it came off that way. I was simply trying to make a point about the man. It’s just robust discussion. Have a good day friend.
I must admit to sometimes ghosting men myself. Usually it’s because I sense they want more than I’m unable to give. And I’m not invested enough in the relationship to want to have a conversation. I recognise it’s not adult behaviour but I’ve had it happen to me so often I take it as a normal aspect of modern dating. I’m also used to people disappearing for weeks or months and then reappearing. I find having several FWBs much easier and less stressful than searching for ‘the one’.
Hey Suzanne, thanks for adding your voice and sharing honestly.
The thing that stands out to me from your share is “I’ve had it happen to me so often I take it as a normal aspect of modern dating.” Along with the next sentence on people disappearing and reappearing.
I’m curious about why it’s become normalised and personally see this as a negative trend with ramifications far beyond dating, as how people date is how people relate. I guess it goes against my personal dedication to love, intimacy and awareness, to witness what looks to me like a progression towards depersonalisation of others who do not serve your purpose.
It also somehow feels like a resigned acceptance of something for many - not saying that’s the case for you - rather than standing for what you truly desire or feel aligned with.
I actually envy you and those like you at times for the freedom you appear to enjoy in having multiple lovers, but as you know, I’m just not wired that way. I’m incapable of loving or making love with more than one person at a time. It’s deep and devotional for me or nothing.
It’s interesting to hear your reason for sometimes ghosting. For me the only time I don’t respond to someone is if they are crude or offensive. Otherwise I always let a man know I’ve decided not to continue the connection. It just feels right to honour them in that way and not just abruptly drop out.
In this particular case, the guy presented as smitten and invested in me - somewhat more than I in him - or at least I felt like I was wanting to stay grounded and explore this apparent great alignment over time, rather than leap to sexual intimacy. He was speaking of wanting to see me again and making great effort to do so, sharing very openly about his life, agreeing that he also wanted a relationship rather than FWB situation and acting interested and attentive throughout the date. He is also a very close friend of a very close friend and we even spoke about how that acted as a kind of character reference. So, for me, his drop off into not only total silence but ignoring my messages was a significant shock and very discombobulating in its incongruence. I was genuinely worried something might have happened to him on the way home that night, because I couldn't explain his behaviour in any other way (that, or he’d lost his phone). I’ve since found out he’s fine and so is his phone, so the only conclusion I can now meaningfully come to is emotional immaturity, cowardice and a lack of capacity for authentic relating, even though he also spoke of being a fan of Esther Perel, whose conference I recently attended.
For me it was hugely disappointing because it did seem that I’d met someone with the potential for a meaningful relationship and I very very rarely meet men where there I mutual interest, alignment and attraction.
But more than that the lack of moral integrity and care hurt my heart.
FOI. Fear of Intimacy.
Fifty-eight-year-old men do not date similarly aged or older women. He probably found you engaging and attractive and was being polite on the date. It’s not that complicated.
Are you passing off your own preferences as truth here? That may be the case for a certain category or men, but certainly not all men and definitely not the kind of men I would be interested in myself. Most of my partners and lovers have been younger than me. And I know plenty of relationships where the women are older. No big deal.
For me, attraction isn’t about someone’s age, but their energy, mind, values, character and physique. And relational compatibility comes down to sharing similar life-goals and relating styles.
As for your assumption about my date’s behaviour, he definitely wasn’t just being polite.He pursued me and displayed a high level of interest, care and desire.
He’s also the oldest man I’ve been on a date with in a decade.
Am I passing off my preferences as truth? No. I’m conveying an observation.
Congratulations! You have now experienced a glimpse into the everyday life of a man… I hope you find this insight valuable.
Hi, I guess you’re saying men get ghosted after dates regularly and you imagine women don’t? From what I can tell both men and women are getting ghosted these days and it’s a horrible experience for both. I’m concerned with the underlying reasons why this behaviour has become so common and hope that in some small way my writing and teaching counteracts a negative trend in human relating. Not all men/women do it. There are many good men/women out there. I believe if we want to change things, we have to keep showing up in integrity, as well as keep on mastering our mindset and refining our selection criteria.